SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA - FEBRUARY 01: California Gov. Gavin Newsom speaks during a press conference on February 01, 2023 in Sacramento, California. California Gov. Gavin Newsom, state Attorney General Rob Bonta, state Senator Anthony Portantino (D-Burbank) and other state leaders announced SB2 - a new gun safety legislation that would establish stricter standards for Concealed Carry Weapon (CCW) permits to carry a firearm in public. The bill designates "sensitive areas," like bars, amusement parks and child daycare centers where guns would not be allowed. (Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)
Sacramento, California – Governor Gavin Newsom used a recent appearance on a conservative-leaning podcast to challenge one of the most persistent narratives about his state: that Californians are fleeing in droves.
During a four-hour conversation on the “Shawn Ryan Show,” Newsom pushed back on host Shawn Ryan’s opening quip about the “92,000 Californians” now living in Tennessee—where the podcast is recorded. With a laugh and a quick retort, Newsom dismissed the premise as “complete bulls—t,” citing two consecutive years of population growth and record-breaking tourism as evidence that the so-called California exodus is overstated.
While the governor didn’t clarify where the 92,000 figure originated, U.S. Census data shows that in 2022, 22,565 Californians relocated to Tennessee. And while that’s a notable shift, particularly when framed within the broader pattern of pandemic-era migration, the state’s population losses remain modest in historical terms. According to the California Department of Finance, even at its lowest point, California never lost more than 1% of its population.
Still, the broader trend tells a more complicated story. The state has posted back-to-back years of slight growth—just 0.1% from 2022 to 2023, and 0.6% from 2023 to 2024—but that follows the historic decline of 2020 and 2021, when California saw its first population losses since becoming a state. Those declines, while short-lived, were significant enough to cost California a congressional seat after the 2020 census.
The reasons behind the out-migration remain consistent. Studies from institutions like Stanford’s Institute for Economic Policy Research show that housing affordability is the primary factor. California’s housing market continues to be one of the most expensive in the nation, and despite statewide efforts to build more housing and relax zoning restrictions, costs remain prohibitive for many middle- and working-class families. Migration patterns reveal that many former Californians have landed in more affordable Southern states, including Texas, Arizona, and Tennessee.
Newsom acknowledged these realities in the interview, calling the pandemic period a “rocky” two years that impacted population shifts nationwide, not just in California. He emphasized that both red and blue states saw similar fluctuations, with some states even experiencing temporary population declines.
But for Newsom, the podcast appearance was about more than correcting the record. The conversation, which spanned gun policy, transgender rights, climate change, and even speculation about Jeffrey Epstein, reflects the governor’s recent pattern of engaging with right-leaning audiences. Newsom has also launched his own podcast, “This is Gavin Newsom,” where he has interviewed conservative figures such as Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon. The moves have fueled speculation that he may be preparing for a future national campaign, possibly a 2028 presidential bid.
For now, though, Newsom appears intent on pushing back against the caricatures of California’s decline—especially when they’re delivered in the opening minutes of a four-hour podcast.
